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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=390444315-31082007>On the dsshe-list someone wrote in asking that if a
disability is obvious does one have to have the student bring in
documentation. An example would be a person who has no arms or no use of
their arms and their are no residual medical issues. One
response brought on the below response from Jim Marks who is on the AHEAD
Board and is respected for his common sense, case by case approach to
disability access. I deleted the one from the "24 year old veteran",
but will forward if I can find it so you have the whole picture. The
Disability Services website at the bottom of Jim's signature is worth
viewing. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=390444315-31082007></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=390444315-31082007>Bonnie Martin</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=390444315-31082007>Georgia Perimeter College</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Disabled Student Services in Higher
Education <DSSHE-L@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> [mailto:Disabled Student Services
in Higher Education <DSSHE-L@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU>] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>"Marks, Jim" <marks@MSO.UMT.EDU><BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 31,
2007 10:59 AM<BR><B>To:</B> DSSHE-L@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
Recommendation Needed<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>I think the 23 year veteran DS officer is creating a purpose for
<BR>documentation that is indefensible and terribly misguided. Essentially,
<BR>the officer is saying that everyone must be treated the same, and
<BR>holding firm to this is the only way to do the job. When I hear such
<BR>logic, I have to scratch my head. What standard are we talking about,
<BR>and who the heck made this castle in the sky a rigid purpose for
<BR>determining eligibility? Where is the common sense and the ability to
<BR>show our work in ways that are logical and humane? Moreover, why is <BR>that
we cannot take the premises behind the civil rights laws and apply <BR>them to
our practices? Both 504 and the ADA say that equal treatment <BR>will harm
people with disabilities. I just don't get why some think the <BR>principles of
looking at individuals and case-by-case decision making <BR>are bad. Truth is,
special treatment is the very core of disability <BR>rights. Without the special
treatment, people with disabilities will be <BR>shut out. So for goodness sake,
let's use our heads and dump the rigid <BR>approach to gathering evidence of
disability and its impact. Let's not <BR>impose rules that are actually contrary
to our profession. And let's <BR>keep the gathering of documentation aimed at
the two purposes outlined <BR>in AHEAD's best practices for documentation.
<BR><BR><BR><BR>Jim Marks <BR>Director of Disability Services <BR>University of
Montana <BR>jim.marks@umontana.edu <BR><A
href="http://www.umt.edu/dss/">http://www.umt.edu/dss/</A> <BR><BR>-----Original
Message----- <BR>From: Disabled Student Services in Higher Education
<BR>[mailto:DSSHE-L@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Worden, Elizabeth
<BR>Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 7:51 AM <BR>To: DSSHE-L@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
<BR>Subject: FW: Recommendation Needed <BR><BR>Gentle People, as I thought over
the correspondence that Jorja and I had <BR>privately, I thought it might be
both interesting and useful to some in <BR>DSSHE-land, so have received Jorja's
permission to share it. <BR><BR>My original reply to Jorja was: <BR>Jorja, I
happen to be of the opinion that it is not reasonable to <BR>require students to
document that which is intuitively obvious to the <BR>most casual of observers.
Thus if I had a student who I can observe <BR>lacks arms or hands, I believe
that it is reasonable to decide that he <BR>might need a scribe (and to learn
how to use voice recognition <BR>software?) without documentation for that
disability. I will be curious <BR>to hear what others say. <BR><BR>He responded
with the following: <BR><BR>Elizabeth, <BR><BR>My heart is big, so I must admit
that your approach was also the path <BR>that I was planning to take, however, I
received the following response <BR>from another lister:
<BR><BR>------------------- <BR><BR>"Jorja, <BR><BR>My suggestion (after 23+
years in the field) is to have policies and <BR>ALWAYS follow them. I have been
through several OCR complaints during <BR>my tenure. I can tell you the policies
and following them is the number <BR>one thing for them. <BR><BR>I ONLY serve on
a regular basis students that meet our guidelines <BR>(request services, have
appropriate documentation, and then complete <BR>mutually with my office a plan
for accommodations.) We have a long <BR>history of students from outside the US
and now a new English Lang Inst. <BR><BR><BR>I hold firm that ALL must meet the
standard. I do give those with a <BR>history of a disability a one semester
grace period. I use a differnt <BR>format that list the effective time of the
accommodations. If the <BR>student does not satisfy the University criteria,
they no longer will <BR>get our services. <BR><BR>This was hard for me to do at
first. I want to help <BR>everyone--disability of not. However, if I cross that
line--I end up in <BR>all kinds of problems both within the University and
legally. <BR><BR>I would caution you to not let your 'feelings' over power your
head in <BR>staying the course. <BR><BR>--------------------- <BR><BR>Now, I'm a
little concerned about the legal implications especially in <BR>regard to
setting a precedence. What are your thoughts on the above? <BR><BR>Jorja
<BR><BR>To which I answered: <BR><BR>I am not saying what I said because my
heart is big. I say it because I <BR>think that there are some functional
limitations that are so clear that <BR>it is superfluous to ask for
documentation. <BR><BR>I do not know that the other advice and mine differ so
much. Remember <BR>that I qualified my statement by saying that it should be
intuitively <BR>obvious to observation. Thus, if a student says they have a
disability <BR>that you cannot clearly discern, require documentation. If you
can <BR>clearly see for yourself that the disability exists, don't bother to.
<BR>For instance, if I had a student who came in with a seeing eye dog and
<BR>was using the dog appropriately, and the dog was behaving appropriately,
<BR>I would not require documentation for a visual impairment. If a student
<BR>came in with an electric wheel chair and used it with good skill, I
<BR>would not require documentation for a mobility impairment. I had a
<BR>student come in the other day who has malformed arms that are about half
<BR>the length of a normal arm. She said she needed a scribe. I am going <BR>to
get documentation on her, as she has multiple disabilities, but I do <BR>not
question this need because she and I made sure she could get into <BR>the
building, to my floor, in and out of the bathroom, etc and I <BR>observed what
use of her hands she does have. Does this help? <BR><BR>This list is intended to
serve as a forum for higher education professionals involved in the delivery of
services to students with disabilities in higher education. Any commercial posts
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